FAQ Part 2

From: Bill Whitson <bcw_at_u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed Dec 10 20:25:36 1997

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ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List
Part 2 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy
List Specific FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.3
Last Update: 12/10/97
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This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available
answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is
Maintained by Bill Whitson <bill_at_booster.u.washington.edu>. The infor-
mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but,
in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain-
ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible
and often failed ;).

This FAQ is Part 2 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented
deals with regular day-to-day issues on the list.

If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please
contact me at the address above.

A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://haliotis.bothell
washington.edu/classiccmp or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188 in the
directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as cclpart2.faq.

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Updates: Added: section 1.8
         Changed: section 1.3, 1.5, 1.7, 3.1
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1. About the List
-----------------
1.1 What is ClassicCmp?
1.2 Why is ClassicCmp?
1.3 What's a Classic Computer?
1.4 Who runs this thing?
1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator?
1.6 Don't you know you're duplicating what others have done?
1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list?
1.8 How long has this list been around?

2. Protocol and Etiquette
-------------------------
2.1 What can I talk about?
2.2 Can I talk about PCs?
2.3 Can I talk about Mini/MainFrames?
2.4 Can I post advertisements?
2.5 Can I ask people to give me their computers?
2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x?
2.7 Where should I look before posting a dumb question?
2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS?!?
2.9 Can I post trophy lists?
2.10 Can I use obscene languagein my posts?

3. Misc List Information
------------------------
3.1 How many subscribers are there?
3.2 How many subscribers use machine x?
3.3 Is this list archived?

4. ClassicCmp Resources on the Net
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4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a Web Site?
4.2 How come the Web Site is so ugly?
4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP Site?

Collecting
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5.1 Where can I find Classic Computers?
5.2 How much is machine x worth?
5.3 Will thousands of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them?
5.4 I don't understand anything. Help!
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1.1 What is ClassicCmp?

It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center
on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place
for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions
dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are
often better handled in private e-mail ;)

1.2 Why is ClassicCmp?

Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it
seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them.

1.3 What is a Classic Computer?

_Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic.
This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to
work OK, so I've kept it.

This definition has come under fire recently but remains the guideline.
Remember that it is certainly flexible. The idea is to keep conversation
on track, not to restrict what you can talk about.

1.4 Who runs this thing?

That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw_at_u.washington.edu.

1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator?

Sorry. It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond
to e-mail. I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still
probably busy doing real work. I receive more than double the amount of
mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd
user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the
messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;). I will get
back to you eventually.

As an update, I've been _really_ hard to reach for the last couple months.
Hopefully, this has now changed. Please keep in mind that this list is
recreation for me, and I sometimes cannot devote any time to it. This
does not indicate a lack of interest in the people or activities
involved.

1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done.

I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week. If you show
me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large
as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find. Obviously
there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see
a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing
anyway.

1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list?

The daily load varies widely from about 20 messages to over 100. Average
seems to be about (I haven't checked lately, will update) messages a day.
There are times where the message load peaks for as much as a week.

1.8 How long has this list been around?

The first message went out March 13, 1997.

[][][][][][][][][]

2.1 What can I talk about?

Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many
people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might
want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a
good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before
posting.

2.2 Can I talk about PCs?

Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then, be
aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC
newsgroups.

2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes
    with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations?

There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for
micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception".

2.4 Can I post advertisements?

Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course,
use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not
you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there
are members of this list in a number of different countries.

If your post is commercial, please be sure to indicate that in some way
in the subject line.

2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers?

Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example,
would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on
usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their
machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that
they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to
find yourself a computer.

2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x.

Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't
have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic
electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz
with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking
questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check
the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking
out!" exactly means.

2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question?

It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive
section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below).

2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?!
    (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?)

Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop
any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars.

2.9 Can I post trophy lists?

Some people like to read other peoples' trophy lists, some do not. There
have been times when most people have been interested in these and times
when many wanted to see them banned. So, they remain - appreciated or
tolerated and somewhat controversial. Can't make everyone happy all the
time ;)

2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts?

Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of
people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now
that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice.

[][][][][][][][][][]

3.1 How many subscribers are there?

Around 210 and changing daily.

3.2 How many subscribers use machine x?

Check the web site (see below). The Classic Computer Encyclopedia shows
the number of machines registered by subscribers.

3.3 Is this list archived?

Yes. The archives are available on the FTP site (see below) in the
directory /pub/classiccmp/archive. The file name format indicates
the month/year of the archive. Keep in mind that they are quite large.

[][][][][][][][][][]
 
4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site?

Yep. http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp

4.2 How come the web site is so ugly?

How come a PET is so ugly? Who cares as long as it works?

4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP site?

Yes. Anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188. Look in /pub/classiccmp. There's
not much there that's not available on the web site. I'm starting to
load old drivers and system disks on occasion. There is an incoming
directory which subscribers may use for ClassicCmp-related file transfers
if needed.

[][][][][][][][][][]
 
5.1 Where can I find classic computers?

The best places seem to be thrift stores and swap meets. These are
closely followed by pawn shops and mom and pop computer stores.
The holy grails are electronics scrap yards - but they tend to be wary
of individual pick-and-choosers. Oh yeah - garage sales!

5.2 How much is machine x worth?

Precisely as much as you'll pay for it. Oh, you're selling it? Then,
precisely as much as I'll pay for it. Seriously, no one prices these any
more. I have an old Computer Blue Book that lists many classic
computers but the prices are just ridiculous. Some machines (Apple
Lisa's, old old Mini's, and unreleased prototypes) are starting down
the road toward their original selling prices but it's unlikely that
most will ever be worth more than the cost of their components.

5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them?

Yes. This is the impetus behind every collector's tireless and selfless
effort. Each machine we fail to save has it's gold parts mercilessly
hacked off and sold (just like rhino horns - and look at the rhinos).
The remainder is then sent to China to be made into bicycle spokes (you
probably think I'm joking). Save a computer! Act now! Remind your
SO of the rhino and cuter, fuzzier animals. It might work.

In all seriousness - there are a large (and growing) number of so called
"computer and electronics 'recyclers'" who take usable computers and
recycle them into "reusable scrap". Small amounts of gold, silver, and
platinum are extracted and the remainder of the material is generally
just marketed to less wasteful countries.

5.4 I don't understand anything. Help!

Don't worry - you're not the only one. Reading this list, old magazines,
books and whatever else you can get your hands on is the first step.
Once you reach a critical mass of knowledge thigs get a lot easier.
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Received on Wed Dec 10 1997 - 20:25:36 GMT

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