Damn fools (was Re: Dell "Oldest PC" winner on zdnet)

From: William Donzelli <aw288_at_osfn.org>
Date: Sun Aug 22 12:03:04 1999

> <The two posts were basically concerned with dealing with those people
> <outside of this list. The first post was about the zdnet Altair possibly
> <going into "corperate hands and from there it can be lost, damaged, ...".
>
> Since the quote is from my post why not step away from ad hominin
> commentary.

If you wish to be singled out, then fine. There are many on this list
with the same attitude, so it more or less applies to lots of people. The
attitude is one of elitism (sp?) - that our little circle of collectors
is far and away the best place for all of our machines, and that if you
are not in the circle, you are trash not worth of even the most common box.
 
> Since reading out of presented contects is going on... First: I worry
> that material will be lost. Never did I say dell was a bad guy, they may
> be offended themseleves by other bad guys actions.

Put yourself if the shoes of some guy from zdnet or Dell - that quote
is basically a direct slam against how well corporate institutions treat
historical artifacts. Dell and zdnet happened to be be "in the wrong
place at the wrong time" - and their names were dragged around a bit.

> Yes and yes, some very good, some are failures. DEC made an effort with
> what lead up to TCM is Boston... what happend after DEC stopped funding
> them is where matters apprently went awry. We should ask why.

It seems that the DEC U.S. collection turned TC"M" is just about the only
massive failure, and even then, DEC wins back a lot of points for the DEC
Australia collection (now under independent control). Look at some of the
successes - Westinghouse, Motorola, IBM (for a time). There are many more
smaller ones, too - U.S. Robotics even had a very small exhibit (they
still do, even after the 3com buyout). Most of these corporate museums
are SERIOUS about what they do, and frankly, put us to shame when it
comes to how well they treat their holdings (how many of us keep out
goodies in climate controlled rooms, stored or displayed with dignity,
completely cataloged for researchers, handled with cotton gloves, and
restored and operated according to all of the rules of thumb for museums?).

> While there is the sound of truth in this I think this is a gross over
> reaction. While your comments on political care are warrented, that does
> not override someone elses personal opinion or concerns. The latter be
> more important. No one was accused of doing anything bad, only concerns
> of "what if".

The problem is that some of those "what if"s tend to be rather
offensively written, often using blanket statements that immediately put
people in a defensive position. Nobody likes that.
 
> Interesting juxtapostion of two comments from two people that see things
> differently. My Tomb raiders was NOT aimed at scrappers, I doubt they
> make much of the gold fingers and the aluminum. I was aiming at the those
> that break up rare systems for pure cash and little care of historical
> value.

No, I have never heard you lash out at the scrappers, but many others
have (that is why the original post was split up - same concept from two
different people). There have been a great number of posts badmouthing
the scrappers in the past, and yesterday, another one came up.

And, no, scrappers can make a lot of money off of the gold. The average
desktop PeeCee contains 2 to 9 dollars worth at today's price. Obviously,
the big systems are the cash cows.

> No doubt true. the scrapper is doing a job, the dope that dropped it
> there is the one that deserves the slap. But then again business has
> priorities. Where we can help is to make it easy, maybe even a small
> value to those that might otherwise scrap systems.

Now here we go again. Calling this imaginary person a "dope" is really
bad form. Does he deserve to be called a "dope", simply because he is
working 55 hours a week, and his boss tells him to get rid of the old
system because they need the floorspace (and sometimes power)? I have
been in this situation many times, working in computer rooms around the
country. I did not have a few hours to devote to trying to find equipment
good homes, even if it was on my own time. Pretty much the best one can
do is put out a post to the list or the newsgroups, and hope someone can
fit _into_ the schedule.

My point is that many people on this list are quick to cut down others,
most often with no real reason. The problem is once said, it is hard to
take back - "no second chances for first impressions", or however that
goes. That imaginary "dope" has now added you to his shitlist, and the
other PDP-8/e he has will also head to the scrapper, even though the "dope"
has the name of someone that would take it. Once again, "public relations".

> True, however your comments sound much like censorship. People don't like
> that and most companies do not either.

I figured that word would come up. No, you can say whatever you like to
others, individual or corporate. Just be sure you know what the
consequences are, and that they may effect you, a group, or the whole
collecting scene as a whole. I, for one, think that being group labelled an
"elitist whiner" is not a good thing. "Respectable collector" sounds much
nicer, but I think the former label is what we are headed towards due to
the attitudes of many on this list.

William Donzelli
aw288_at_osfn.org
Received on Sun Aug 22 1999 - 12:03:04 BST