Northstar Horizon - them's fightin' words!

From: Bob Stek <bobstek_at_ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun Oct 31 13:53:22 1999

<g> Well, this is one way to get a thread going! <g>

Anyone else out there with comments about the Horizon? Where are you,
Allison?


Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: CLASSICCMP-owner_at_u.washington.edu
[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner_at_u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 2:00 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon - them's fightin' words!


Well, Parrrrrdonn me! My statements re: N* reflected a locally developed
cultural bias developed during the early years of CP/M compilers, which
often generated code blocks too large to be used in a N* with its BASIC ROM
in place. There were some locally-generated business software packages
which, for a time, wouldn't run on N* because of the small TPA. This was
later resolved, in that the code was rebuilt with a smaller map. The FDC
compatibility problem went away when the SW vendor got a N*. This suggests
the N* was, in general, popular enough to warrant such steps.

The main issue for me, of course, was the compatibility issue, which, as
you've pointed out, could be dealt with by selective paring and pruning.
That was not cost-efficient, however, and, since my living and that of my
colleagues of the time was dependent on making things work at the lowest
possible overall cost, the notion of buying a box and then
replacing/augmenting some of its innards was not fiscally palatable. The
approach which suited me best at the time was to buy a box, e.g. from
Integrand, (Visalia, CA) which unified the drive and system packages, and
put whatever the currently "best" board set or assortment in it. That
usually meant CCS or SD Systems, at the time.

I did, after all, indicate that the N*'s were not readily impeachable on
grounds of functional or reliability issues.

Dick

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Stek <bobstek_at_ix.netcom.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp_at_u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: Northstar Horizon - them's fightin' words!


>Now just a minute, there! As a founding member (along with John Dvorak
when
>he sold N* software out of his home in his "Software Review" newsletter) of
>the International NorthStar User's Association (INSUA) I take issue! The
>NorthStar's "limitations" (so-called) were there because they were one of
>the pioneers with an early 4 MHz Z-80 powered S-100 box without the
switches
>and blinkin' lights so beloved by members of this group (myself included,
as
>an IMSAI owner w/ N* drives!)- this was prior to CP/M, when 32k was a
>mammoth amount of memory. With its sleek, brushed aluminum front panel and
>walnut cabinet it could fit into the office environment of those
>professionals / pioneers who wanted a micro to do useful office work. N*'s
>BCD arithmetic gave exact answers even before MBASIC users began to
complain
>about "rounding" errors. And for serious number crunching, add N*'s
>hardware FP board, and top it off with Allen Ashley's N* BASIC compiler
>(under N* DOS or CP/M) and you had a very fast system. A 56k CP/M system
>was considered more than adequate for most programs. What programs in
>particular couldn't you run? Of course we all wanted a bigger TPA, and
>there were ways to achieve this. The most elegant, IMHO, was to replace
the
>N* controller with one from Morrow which could handle N*'s native
>hard-sectored format, as well as soft-sectored 5" and 8" formats. You
could
>also move N*'s boot PROM from E800 to F800 without too much difficulty, and
>add an 8" controller as well.
>
>Curiosity, indeed!
>
>Bob Stek
>bobstek_at_ix.netcom.com
>Saver of Lost SOLs (and expanding Horizons!)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: CLASSICCMP-owner_at_u.washington.edu
>[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner_at_u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher
>Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 12:01 PM
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon
>
>
>I am not, nor have I been, trying to get a Horizon, or any other model of
N*
>going. I recently arranged to give away my last bit of N* hardware, a Z80A
>CPU card. I have had lots of trouble finding people who would take it.
The
>problem, of course, isn't that they don't work, because they do, and very
>well, too, but rather that the N* environment is so limited, particularly
in
>the Horizon with its 8K ROM space, that many compiled programs won't work
>because the TPA is too small. What's more, the FDC isn't capable using of
>CP/M-standard (IBM-3740, SSSD 8") diskettes.
>
>They're OK as a curiosity, but back in the lat '70's and early '80's, they
>were not well received because of the TPA and FDC issues mentioned above,
>and I warn everyone off them due to their resulting limitations.
>
>regards,
>
>Dick
>-----Original Message-----
>From: JusmeSJ_at_aol.com <JusmeSJ_at_aol.com>
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
><classiccmp_at_u.washington.edu>
>Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 10:30 PM
>Subject: Northstar Horizon
>
>
>>Hi, I ran accross your message in a web search. I have a working and
>>currently running Northstar Horizon, I have parts like drive controller,
>i/o,
>>mamory cards and a few teac drives. I also have alot of documentation on
>>northstar Horizon & Advantage computers, plus software like N*Basic,
N*Cp/m
>>etc. Are u building one? need help getting it goin let me know.
>>
>>Steve Benedict
>>Redwood City, California
>
Received on Sun Oct 31 1999 - 13:53:22 GMT