Slips (was Re: !Re: Nuke Redmond!)

From: Chris Kennedy <>
Date: Mon Apr 10 10:47:59 2000

Geoff Roberts wrote:

> They also are good for teaching the reason behind the philosophy of
> using rudder and
> not aileron to pick up a dropped wing when stalling out of a (say)
> climbing turn.
> Unlike your generic PA-28 Cherokees and some others they WILL try and
> snap
> savagely if you try.

Certainly compared to a PA28. It's *really* difficult to get a Cherokee
uncoordinated in a turn because of it's asymmetic ailerons, but as
a consequence what you say is very true; people who do their primary
training in Cherokees tend to have very lazy feet. For those people what
I do is have them fly the 150 with the elevator in their lap, sitting on
their hands and using their feet to pick up the wing in a sort of falling-leaf
maneuver. I prefer that to the "see what happens if you're naughty"
approach of flying into a spin, mostly because I neve know when I'm
gonna have to club them with the clipboard to get them to give up the airplane.

> I have chatted with some very startled Piper
> trained pilots in the
> process of endorsement for Cessnas after they had a first hand
> demonstration of this
> in a C150, which will try and snap-roll inverted if provoked in this
> manner.

Yeah, although there's a literally a few seconds there where, even
though you're at the incipient point of spin, you can drag the 150
out -- a push with full opposite rudder and aileron works, or you can
just lower the nose and fly out the other side. I just tried a series of
climbing turn and cross control stalls in a 150B and found that I had
maybe a second power-on, two seconds power off to do something about the
developing spin -- although once it did develop it wound up pretty quickly :-)

> And it's a LOT quicker than 6 deg/sec in a snap, probably closer to 40.
> I learnt to fly in a C150 and moved onto Pipers later, I'm glad it was
> that way around.
> I never got used to the flaps in a Cherokee as opposed to the ones in a
> Cessna though,
> the first time I used flaps in a PA28-180 I could barely feel the effect
> and thought they
> weren't working properly. (C150's have flaps like a garage door, and
> there is a distinct
> pitch down & deceleration when you crank them out.)

I want to say it's 40 degrees vs. 25 degrees max flaps, C150 vs. PA28,
bud I'd have to check. The Cherokee's flaps aren't a great way
to get drag, but they do help with lift, which is a good thing given that
the PA28 wants to fall out of the sky and lands fast, as opposed to the
150 which will drift all the way into the next county and lands almost as
slow as a Cub :-)

Chris Kennedy
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685  6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
Received on Mon Apr 10 2000 - 10:47:59 BST

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0 : Fri Oct 10 2014 - 23:32:40 BST