May I jump in (your rant started as a reply to
my mailing) ?
> > What about the VCF makes you think it will "cause damage to hamfests and
> > deplete them of the few remaining 'vintage' computers"? The VCF *is* a
> > place to go find old computers. Do you actually think people would go to
> > hamfests and scour them for all the old computer crap they can find just
> > to bring it to the VCF and hawk it for eBay prices? You fool!
> The VCF is also a place to draw the attention of non-hackers to
> computer collecting; while the prices of older equipment at VCF may
> not be terribly high, in terms of e-bay pricing or affordability for
> most of us here, I recon that they're still far higher than they were
> at hamfests several years ago.
Let's see, how would you name a meeting where several buyers went
home with new toys at acceptable prices (a TRS 80 M1 with expansion
box, printer and all dust covers (!) at USD 30 isn't realy overpriced)
and some pricepushing dealer went home with their entire stock ?
> > Are you therefore meaning to imply that the VCF is in fact detrimental to
> > the hobby of collecting and perserving computers and their history? You
> > idiot!
> No, I neither said nor implied that. What I
> was implying is that it's harmful for those of us who like to collect
> and hack interesting finds that we pick up for a few dollars -
> treasures that were someone else's trash, you might say. In years
> past, before computer, and other vintage electronics, collecting
> became fashionable, some of us were able to spend less than US$100 and
> fill up a large station wagon with all sorts of computers, plus a few
> bits of Heathkit equipment, various electronic components, some audio
> stuff with tubes (valves), and then come home to find lots more
> interesing old computer finds lurking for-sale on Usenet, often for
> the cost of shipping.
Take into account that time is progressing, and the number
of available systems is shrinking - If 10 years ago 90% of
all obsolete H-8s became scraped and 10% ended at ham fests,
it resulted in plenty systems, since the absolute number was
quite large. Just nowadays the absolute number is close to
zero, and every aproach to save even single systems from the
dumpster is needed. And promoting the collectibility is one
way. Of course, some may try to get the green paper by the
pound, but in general it just opens a path for people to
learn that there are other people who take the old box /
board / terminal, so it must not end in a dumpster.
Remember, todays 10 year old computer isn't a H8, Altair
or TRS-80, but rather a 386 Box !!!
> We didn't collect just for the sake of collecting or squirreling away
> equipment, for future profit, to complete a "collection," etc. We
> collected to have more fun toys to take apart, examine, repair,
> restore and hack.
Maybe attend to the next VCF, and your view may change - the crowd
is way more like what you describe - this greedy fine suit wearing
non hacker collector is virtualy unseen. You're eventualy implying
something that just isn't true.
> I sense that this group is composed of two different groups of people,
> who still have something in common - a desire to obtain and preserve
> older equipment. We just have differnt ideas as to how we go about
> it, the "serious collectors" and shelf-liners who are more interested
> in history and unmodified equipment verses the hackers who preserve
> equipment through curiosity, tinkering and reverse engineering and are
> responsible for the actual preservation of working systems. The
> former go around thinking "what's it worth" the later "neat, a new toy
> to hack!" I could expand upon this further, but I haven't the time
> tonight, alas.
There's more than black and white - otherwise I'd look look lick
a chess board. It is possible to bring 'original conditions' and
'play around' under one roof.
In fact, again Classic Computing is siilar to Vintage Cars, there
are different aproaches. Of course, there are show room collector
guys where the cars are never moved (but even huge collections of
true unique cars, like the one of the Deutsches Museum send pices
to meetings on their own wheels), and on the other hand there are
the Hot Rod comunity - don't kill me, I'm serious, these Hot Rods
are by any means classic cars, and so their owners are preserving
history ... just a bit modified to fit the individual taste! Alas
it's hard to find someone who includes them.
And between this extrems there's the vast majority of collectors
who own just one, or maybe a few cars, who donate all their time
to restore the original condition and run them on every possible
occasion. Even some who restore an old car as vehicle for daily
use (And some who just buy a restored car to impress friends).
Belive me, VCF is (at least until now, and until the futur as far
as I participate) by no means a great thing to bring real people
together and help the technoids, and not a sell out of our hobby.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen
http://www.vintage.org/vcfe
http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe
Received on Thu Oct 12 2000 - 11:09:33 BST