Ethan and others,
My intention is not to offend, and I apologize if I have. Further I wish to
clarify that I have no issues with the _science_ that is being done to
understand our planet and the things that go on around it. I have a
_serious_ issue with people who do not understand that science is a
continual process and that at any given point it can be _completely_
inaccurate in the projections it makes. This has been true since before
Galileo was put on trial for disputing scientific theories of the time that
the world was _not_ the center of the universe. In the case of ozone it has
been shown that CFCs can catalyze ozone given the right conditions, but any
theory of the ozone layer has to include that umptyzillion terawatt ozone
generator known to you and I know as the Sun. The same is happening with
the Global Warming crud. If you assume that we've got tolerable climate
records for the last 500 years and you assume that it took 15 MILLION years
after the event that wiped out the dinosaurs for the climate to "settle
down." If you compare the amount of time we've been watching the macro
"global" climate changes to the very well known and studied "micro" climate
changes that happen every year, then we have been watching the macro cycles
for an equivalent of about 5 minutes of elapsed time. If you were plopped
on to this planet and observed the climate for 5 minutes could you predict
what was going to happen the rest of the year or even THEORIZE about why it
would change? No you couldn't. We've been studying the annual cycle for
decades and we still don't completely understand the relationships between
El Nina and the weather. We've got a fossil record that _clearly_ shows the
planet gets a lot hotter and a lot colder than it is now over periods
ranging from 100,000 to 250,000 years, and yet some irresponsible
scientists insist in their hubris that it is somehow "man's" fault that the
damn global climate is changing, and since its our fault we should be able
to do something about it, even when everyone knows we can't stop a
hurricane, so how could we possibly have the gall to believe we could alter
a temperature cycle that not only have we only just begun to appreciate,
but has occurred for millennia without us even being present to observe
it?! I used to marvel at the stories of Mayan priests sacrificing human
lives so that the seasons would come, now I weep at the stories of
politicians who, at the behest of modern scientists, are sacrificing entire
generations to try to stop the earth from proceeding through its natural
cycles.
Regards,
--Chuck
At 09:41 AM 9/14/00 -0700, you wrote:
>--- Chuck McManis <cmcmanis_at_mcmanis.com> wrote:
> > At 11:44 PM 9/13/00 -0400, you wrote:
> > >I've heard that Freon...isn't nearly as dangerous as it's made out to
> > >be, and that the recent legislation to have it banned came about just
> after
> > >the patents expired
> >
> > It isn't patents, it is the CFC treaty (Osaks?) that bans the production
> > (first) and then use (second) of CFCs based on their alleged, but
> unproven,
> > impact on the ozone layer surrounding the earth. Note that I do not
> dispute
> > that there is a gap in the ozone layer around the earth, only that no one
> > has yet given anything more than conjecture on why it exists, and since we
> > don't have historical data on its existence (or lack thereof) we don't yet
> > have anyway of proving or disproving said conjectures, but something that
> > _was_ a provable way of saving _actual human lives_ was banned because of
> > it. </soapbox>
>
>I have personally worked with scientists from the University of Wyoming and
>technicians from NASA Goddard Space Flight Center who directly and indirectly
>measure the ozone hole and the chemicals that are harmful to ozone (CFCs,
>Bromine compounds, etc.) I have helped launch balloons and collect telemetry
>data. No doubt that I'm not an unbiased source, but even though I think CFCs
>are nifty compounds at ground level for lots of tasks (cooling, cleaning,
>etc.),
>at 30,000m, they are not a) natural and b) harmless.
>
>At McMurdo, in spaces with electrical equipment, rather than Halon, there are
>built-in C02 fire-supression systems. They are much larger physically, and
>harmful to humans, but CO2 poisoning vs. Halon suffocation leave you just as
>dead.
>
>-ethan
>
>http://penguincentral.com/ozone.html
>
>
>
>=====
>Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to
>vanish, please note my new public address: erd_at_iname.com
>
>The original webpage address is still going away. The
>permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/
>
>See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details.
>
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Received on Thu Sep 14 2000 - 12:39:46 BST