If you want good key action, check out the old XT and AT/ PS/2 REAL IBM
keyboards for the keyswitches :)
At 06:03 AM 4/13/01 -0700, you wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Richard Erlacher <edick_at_idcomm.com>
>To: <classiccmp_at_classiccmp.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:12 PM
>Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads
>
>
> > As far as looking for key switches, for functionality, I rather liked
>Sellam's
> > suggestion implying that an old PC Keyboard (not a rarity) might provide
> > sufficient switches.
>
>That's a great idea. I have a few dead ones in
>the boneyard. Might as well tear into one and see
>if it can be salvaged.
>
>I'm going to have to learn to desolder I guess. :)
>Don't know how I got this far in electronics hobby
>building and never had to do any serious parts
>removal.
> Moreover, with a good software package and a hi-res
> > printer, you could make key legends that you can rubber-cement to the
>keycaps
> > and paint over with clear laquer. If you don't mind that they're less
>durable,
> > you can even use the (clear vinyl, not "magic") scotch tape to keep from
>rubbing
> > off the legends. The caps come off the keytops, and if you are careful
>you can
> > do this so it looks good and works very well.
> >
> > Dick
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ross Archer" <dogbert_at_mindless.com>
> > To: <classiccmp_at_classiccmp.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 8:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard Erlacher wrote:
> > >
> > > > Look "good" ... ??? ... Depends on your preferences, I guess.
> > > >
> > > > A big part of the question of HOW to go about fixing this is to answer
>the
> > > > question of whether your goal is to restore the KIM-1 to its original
> > condition
> > > > for historical authenticity or whether you'd just as soon have
>something
> > that
> > > > works well instead.
> > >
> > > Operational is the main thing, but I'd be thrilled to restore it if the
> > opportunity
> > > came up.
> > >
> > > My main interest in the KIM and other really simple machines is as a
> > > hands-on demo of what being a computerist was like in the early days
> > > of microcomputers, before the keyboard, box, and monitor
> > > paradigm took hold. Extra points for toggle switches too. :)
> > >
> > > I've seen interest in the thing from visitors who are
> > > into computers, and so far all were less "what a quaint but completely
> > > prehistoric piece of junk" than "wow, I can't believe a machine with
> > > 1/1000th the CPU speed and 1/64,000th the memory can play
> > > Hunt the Wumpus and other games and they're even a little fun." :)
> > > It's a tribute to doing an amazing amount with what by modern standards
> > > seems preposterously little, and I think preserving this realization is
>part
> > > of what being "into" classic computers can be about.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > If the former is your goal, then you've a lot of hunting to
> > > > do, but may eventually find out how to modify some other product to
>fit the
> > > > application. On the other hand, there are lots of available keypads,
>or, if
> > you
> > > > prefer, lots of available individual keyswitches with
>removable/clear-capped
> > > > tops, that you can build a really decent and servicable keypad that
>you can
> > > > attach to the auxilliary connector in order to substitute it for the
> > original
> > > > without having first to remove the existing keypad. It seems to me
>that
> > they
> > > > should work quite well in parallel.
> > >
> > > Okay. I try the regular electronics outlets. I'll try specifically
>keyboard
> > > manufacturers (ALPs, Cherry, etc. I guess) and see what I can dig up.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don't know that Commodore actually fabricated the keypads
>themselves, and,
> > in
> > > > fact, rather doubt it, so it's likely someone, somewhere, will have
>used a
> > > > similar keypad, or, at least, similar switches, so that will provide
>you
> > with
> > > > amusement at swapmeets and junk sales. Moreover, if you haven't yet
>looked
> > at
> > > > third-party switch catalogs, I'd certainly recommend that so you can
>explore
> > > > replacing the keypad with a possibly more durable and/or convenient,
>yet
> > > > cosmetically similar keypad.
> > > >
> > > > This will require some serious head-scratching.
> > > >
> > > > Dick
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Ross Archer" <dogbert_at_mindless.com>
> > > > To: <classiccmp_at_classiccmp.org>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:17 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks_at_yahoo.com>
> > > > > To: <classiccmp_at_classiccmp.org>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:21 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Richard Erlacher <edick_at_idcomm.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit
>that's
> > > > > > > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Looking at the schematic, it appears to be a simple matrix. Short
>a
> > > > > particular
> > > > > > X and Y line for the questionable key. If it "strikes", it's the
> > keypad.
> > > > > > If it still flakes out, it could be a component or trace.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Right. It's a 3 x 7 array with 2 keys wired to a 556 for ST (step)
>and
> > > > > RS (reset).
> > > > >
> > > > > I've already tested the broken keys via the edge connector, and
>they're
> > > > > working fine. Not that there was too much doubt, as the buttons
> > > > > involved are either caved in or "feel like they're not connecting
> > > > > with anything". So a 3x7 + 2 switch setup should do the trick,
> > > > > but what would look good.
> > > > >
> > > > > > -ethan
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > =====
> > > > > > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to
> > > > > > vanish, please note my new public address: erd_at_iname.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The original webpage address is still going away. The
> > > > > > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > __________________________________________________
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> >
Received on Sat Apr 14 2001 - 01:00:48 BST