------------Original Message-------------
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:27:15 -0500
From: "Allison" <ajp166_at_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Cromemco landmarks
>-The first Z-80 micro
Nope.
>-The first micro with a Winchester HD
Nope.
>-The first micro color graphics system
Yes and significant.
>-The first micro implementation of I/O channel processors
Nope, IMSAI had a 8080 in the FDC.
>-The first micro to boot from ROM without front panel switches
Nope, NS* and a slew of others. First was likely the Poly 88.
>-The first micro with integrated floppy disks
Not hardly.
Nice claims, put dates and supporting evidence up. Cromemco is best known
for The Dazzler color display, RF tight systems in solid boxes and generally
good systems.
Allison
-----------------------
Well, as I said, I'm only quoting their literature; interesting facts or amusing hyperbole, your choice.
But they do indeed quite specifically make those claims, after this introduction:
-
"All of us who use Cromemco systems have, at one time or another, had to deal with the situation
where someone asks you what kind of computer you have, and when you tell them you hear,
"CROMEMCO? Never heard of them."
Well, next time you hear that you can rattle off a few of the following first-time technical
contributions that Cromemco has made to the microcomputer industry:"...
-
Having heard the "Never heard of them" myself often enough, even on this august forum, I thought I'd
share the list with you. Quibble over details if you will, but to the best of my knowledge they were
one of the few companies whose micros were credible enough to seriously compete with the minis
of the day in large government & institutional settings. As you say, all they seem to be known for is
the dazzler and the Sherman-tank-grade archaic 16 K Z-2's & CS3's, not the "big iron" of later years
or the various innovations along the way, and that was my point, that there was more to Cromemco
than most people seem to be aware of.
But AFAIK, last I heard Harry Garland (one of the founders) is still around doing research for Canon,
if you want to email & ask him to back up their claims...
Or, since you're challenging, why not put up some dates & supporting evidence yourself? I'm not
arguing or flaming, but I assume that for you to say 'Nope' so authoritatively & so often you must
have some supporting facts of your own, which would be interesting indeed. Who did market a
commercial micro with an integrated Winchester before Cromemco in '79, for example? If ads are
any indication, at the time Cromemco announced the Z-2H the only other HD's I can find in my old
Bytes is Corvus's add-on external version, and Ohio's Challenger and various add-on drives using
cartridge modules, not Winchesters, although Altos announced one a few months after Cromemco.
As to the performance figures vs. DEC, they were taken from Datamation & Unix World magazines
and a UNIX USENET study, this being in late 1986. Interestingly enough, Dhrystone benchmarks
are:
Cromix CS420: 3703
VAX11/785 2136
VAX11/780 1662
MicroVAX-II 1612
VAX11/750 1091
IBM RT 1333
While the Whetstone scores make the MicroVAX look a lot better:
CS420 1,050,000
MicroVAX II 877,000
VAX11/780 476,000
IBM RT 200,000
Cromemco Z80 7,000
Cromemco never claimed to be the fastest, just that they, using the S-100 bus, "... can clearly
outperform even some of the most capable mini-computers, and do so at a price/performance point
unequalled by any other technology in the industry." How much did a '780 or '785 and a MicroVAX
cost in '86? I'll be the first to admit that I know zip about DEC and the only other literature I had with
prices just went off to Norm in SF (has it arrived yet, Norm?)
And I think they meant I/O channel processors in the mini/mainframe sense, not an intelligent(?)
floppy drive; there's something categorically different between an IOP CBUS I/O controller and a
PET FDD, even with its 2 CPU's...
Raises an interesting point though; what is considered an authoritative source for who did what and
when, if we don't trust ads or company literature, especially as it becomes scarcer & memories
begin to fade? Certainly is a lot of incorrect information on the various 'Web sites purporting to be
accurate time lines, although if that can be trusted the Poly88 came out in '77 while the Cromemco
was definitely around at least in '76...
And I swore I'd never get drawn into one of these discussions :)... leave it with ya...
m
Received on Thu Nov 08 2001 - 22:13:56 GMT