World Trade crash...

From: Richard Erlacher <edick_at_idcomm.com>
Date: Tue Sep 11 18:53:47 2001

Just to set the record straight ... I DID NOT SAY ANYONE HAD TO GIVE UP ANY
PRIVACY RIGHTS. What I said, was that folks will, ultimately, have to make some
choices. In case you wonder about that, read my entire post, please, and don't
assume I said what you disagree with just to piss you off.

what I said was, in part,

"Sadly, the only way in which such acts can be anticipated and prevented in the
future is for us to give up some of the privacy we cherish. Technology and law
protect those who enjoy this privacy. If we insist on giving aid and comfort to
minor criminals by failing to report them each and every time they violate our
laws, and if we insist on retaining our privacy, we'll have to learn to tolerate
this sort of event. The choice is between our own rights and those of the
"minor" criminals. People wouldn't attempt to hide among the populace if they
knew that the populace would phone the authorities to report their every action.
There's a fine line between complacency and complicity."

There's no guarantee that such acts can be anticipated and prevented at all, but
it's clear that the only way is to have two guys watching each one of us or to
have a computer that reads minds follow each of us around. That's not likely to
happen soon.

In this case, I disagree with Sellam ONLY in the sense that I don't consider
choosing to let someone *other than the government* infringe on my right to live
in an orderly crime-free society to be the right of a responsible citizen any
more than I believe it's a responsible citizen's right to ignore government
abuses. There are rights that have to be defended from infringement by the
government and there are rights that have to be defended from infringement by
other individuals, not to mention by artificial personages in the form of
corporations. Law enforcement is everybody's job, not just that of the police.
It starts with doing your part by obeying the laws, continues with
changing/obsoleting the ones you don't like, and making new ones as they're
needed, and, while it never ends, it also includes doing what you have to in
order to ensure everyone else does his part as well.

If you're not willing to do that, then you get what you deserve. Unfortunately,
then everyone else gets what you deserve as well.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Sieler" <sieler_at_allegro.com>
To: "Sellam Ismail" <foo_at_siconic.com>; <classiccmp_at_classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: World Trade crash...


> Re:
> > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> > > Sadly, the only way in which such acts can be anticipated and
> > > prevented in the future is for us to give up some of the privacy we
> > > cherish. Technology and law protect those who enjoy this privacy.
>
> Sellam quoted:
> > "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary
> > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin
>
> Absolutely! It's *way* too early to jump to the conclusion that
> giving up privacy could in any way solve problems and be better for us
> in the long run. Thanks, Sellam!
>
> Stan Sieler sieler_at_allegro.com
> www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler
>
>
Received on Tue Sep 11 2001 - 18:53:47 BST