It depends on where you put the boundary of the enclosure. In the case of the
VAXen we had once upon a time, since the computer occupied multiple racks, and
the PSU's/UPS' occupied multiple racks, the building was the enclosure.
Nothing from DEC could be considered inexpensive to be a toy, though.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502_at_yahoo.com>
To: <classiccmp_at_classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:34 PM
Subject: "Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)
>
> --- Doc <doc_at_mdrconsult.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> > > >
> > > An easy way to spot a product intended for the toy market as opposed to
> > > one intended to be seen as a computer, is that the disk drive interface
> > > is external.
> >
> > You're calling the entire DECstation 5000/2xx line "products intended
> > for the toy market as opposed to one intended to be seen as a computer",
> > since they have no internal mass storage.
>
> I'm not so sure I understand what Dick is asserting here... If he means
> "no internal mass storage; all disks external", I think we can all come up
> with a raft of exceptions (from my own collection, DECMate I, VAX-11/750,
> PDP-11/70, VAX 8200, PDP-8/L, MINC-11... hardly computers for the "toy
> market"). One might argue that mini-computers would not be confused
> with toys, but from a form-factor standpoint, A DECmate-I CPU, for example,
> is smaller than a TRS-80 Model III. A MINC-11 isn't particularly large
> compared to a full-tower case (and the BA32 that contains is about the
> same size; the 42" rack just has room for cables; no active components).
>
> If he means "no internal mass storage interface", he might have something
> of a point. Ignoring audio cassette, I can think of few computers more
> complicated than a traditional "single-board" computer that lack an in-
> cabinet mass storage interface. The PET, VIC-20 and C-64 all interface
> to disks (floppy _and_ fixed (D9060/D9090 for the PET, anyway)) without
> any sort of hardware or ROM pgrade, but the disk is external. The ZX-80-
> family lacks any sort of internal disk interface. The Elf, the VIP, the
> KIM, SYM, AIM-65, etc., all SBCs and all lacking disk interfaces. Non-
> Zorro-equipped Amigas (A1000, A500, A500+) have floppy but not hard disk
> interfaces in-box, but the A600 and A1200 have 44-pin internal IDE ports.
> Does that make the A500 a toy, but not the A600?
>
> I would propose that the label "toy" might be suitable for machines that
> have external disk controllers _and_ an external network interface (if
> any; I'll bend and accept a serial port as a network interface if it runs
> some network protocol - SLIP, PPP, LocalTalk, DDCMP...) I'm not sure
> how to classify single-boards, though. By the nature of them being
> simplistic in design and user-interface, they appeal to the electronics
> hobby market more than the home/kids market. Kids wanted a TI-99/4 or
> a VIC-20 or a C-64. Kids were not so enthusiastic about a Z-80 starter
> kit (which happens to have two S-100 slots and an intergral EPROM
> burner) or a KIM-1 or a COSMAC Elf.
>
> Mind you, I love toy computers. They have been fun and profitable for
> me. Others, though, need that "bittybox" label to glorify whatever
> they like at the expense of others. Let's at least agree on what
> constitutes a "toy", even in the most general of terms.
>
> Meanwhile... Back To The Toys!
>
> -ethan
>
>
>
>
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Received on Wed Apr 24 2002 - 22:18:44 BST