I hate Radio Shack

From: Merle K. Peirce <at258_at_osfn.org>
Date: Thu Jun 13 20:50:40 2002

Most diesel electrics are started from the dynamo. Some connections are
switched and the engine is excited.

On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Tony Duell wrote:

> >
> > Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 01:55:45AM +0100:
> > [quoting ?]
> > > > The only time I've seen this is on the Ford type starter where
> > > > the pull in for the gear comes from a pole piece in the started
> > >
> > > Pre-Engaged starter motors (that's to say, ones where the solenoid moves
> > > the pinion into mesh before turning on the motor, as opposed to some
> > > device that moves the pinion into mesh when the motor turns, like the old
> > > 'Bendix' drive or the ones where the armature moves along the body of the
> >
> > ['old' Bendix drive? :-)]
>
> Well, OK, this _is_ classiccmp were people like old (and solid) designs
> :-).
>
> At one time (1940s?) there was an idea in the UK to used a single machine
> as both the starter motor and dynamo (DC generator). It was generally
> chain-driven from the crankshaft, and I think it had separate
> windings for the 2 functions. The problem was finding a gear ratio
> between the machine and the engine that (a) let the engine turn fast
> enough to start and (b) didn't cause the electrical machine to fly apart
> when the engine was running at maximum speed.
>
> >
> > As far as I know, Ford starters use a separate starter solenoid,
> > mounted above the inner fender, above the passenger-side front tire,
> > about a foot or so away from the battery. The starters themselves use
> > a Bendix spring to engage the starter. A common failure, causing many
> > mechanics to sell people new batteries, new starters, new voltage
> > regulators, new solenoids, etc. is when the screws holding the
> > solenoid to the frame become a little too loose, or if there's some
> > oxidation/rust there causing a bad connection to the frame. Also, it
>
> Now you mention it, I cured just that fault on a UK-built Mini not too
> long ago. An idiot garage [1] had fitted the wrong battery which meant
> the leads weren't long enough. They'd 'cured' this by bolting the
> (separate) starter solenoid to the frame with one screw only. It had come
> loose, the starter didn't operate. Of course I fixed it properly....
>
> [1] Is there any other kind? In the UK most garage mechanics make
> computer field servoids look clueful. I knew there was a reason why we do
> all our own servicing and repairs :-)
>
> > helps to use a piece of high temperature hose, or asbestos tubing,
> > around the cable leading from the solenoid to the starter; this
> > prevents the passenger-side exhause manifold, or headers, from melting
> > the insulation on the cable... when that happens, some mechanics try
> > to sell people new batteries, starters, etc. rather than just
>
> Like field servoids, garage mechanics like swapping out parts without
> bothering to do tests to find out what the real problem is.
>
> > replacing, or better insulating, the cable.
> >
> > Disclaimer: as to those newfangled Fords made after the 1970s, I've no
> > idea what sort of peculiar things go on under their hoods (bonnets),
> > and I don't really want to know, but I hear that some don't even use
> > spark plugs, distributors or carburators. All of the new (post 1970s)
>
> This is true. But some pre-1970 cars don't either (Diesel engines were in
> use before 1970 :-)). Of course many modern cars have far too many
> electronic computers in them (the correct number, of course, is zero).
>
> > motorcars are too strange for my tastes; weird machines, extremely
>
> There is nothing wrong with weird machines. I happen to like the Citroen
> DS, which is certainly _strange_. The 6V models (1959 version if I
> remember the shop manual correctly) don't even have an HT distributor....
> There is a lot wrong with 'solving' problems by adding unnecessary
> complexity.
>
> > weird and overly complex, and cheaply built, machines with expensive
> > price tags.
> >
> > Have engineers forgotten how to design things that work properly while
> > not being overly complex? It appears that needlessly complex gadgetry
> > has replaced functionality.
>
> I believe that I.K. Brunell once said 'Any third-rate engineer can make a
> complicated device even more complicated. It takes a genius to go back to
> first principles'. From what I can see, there are a lot of 3rd-rate
> engineers out there at the moment.
>
> -tony
>
>

M. K. Peirce

Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
Shady Lea, Rhode Island

"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
              
              - Ovid
Received on Thu Jun 13 2002 - 20:50:40 BST