I don't understand what the controversy is here. I
have a small chip collection, and I build working
computers out of many of these older chips. From
scratch, with wire wrap. Both hobbies have historical
and educational value. What is the point of
collecting, anyway? I suppose part of it might be
"lust and greed" (I have it and you don't, I have 20
and you have 10) but another important part is sharing
the history of the chip or machines with others. You
can do these things with chips or with computers.
Personally, I can't afford the former, and I enjoy the
latter more anyway.
I've taken probably working boards, removed chips, and
either sold them, displayed them, or used them to
build other machines with. None of these boards were
of incredible historical or irreplaceable value. One
thing you have to say about chip collecting is that it
takes up a lot less SPACE than collecting computers!
--- Sellam Ismail <foo_at_siconic.com> wrote:
>
> Oh no, another rant from a pseudonym.
>
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, John Galt wrote:
>
> > I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a
> moment to defend my hobby.
> >
> > 1. Most chip collectors are very particular about
> protecting their chips.
> > We just don't
> > throw them in the bottom of a drawer like
> some "computer enthusiasts".
>
> I don't know of any computer you can just "throw in
> the bottom of a
> drawer" (unless you're talking about a Sinclair ZX81
> or some handheld).
> But even then, collectors don't throw their
> computers in the bottom of a
> drawer.
>
> > I could not
> > count the times that I've bought chips on
> EBAY auctions that were
> > displayed
> > loose in a coffee can from someone who had
> found them in grandpa's
> > shop.
> > Do you really think these chips are better
> off going in the trash
> > than into some
> > chip collectors collection?
>
> Yes, yes. We've heard your arguments before. But
> we aren't talking about
> loose chips in a tin can. We're talking about
> pillaging working boards
> for chips. If you're going to respond to a thread,
> at least respond
> within the context (no straw men here).
>
> > 2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors
> collection it's not gone from
> > the face
> > of the earth. It's carefully preserved for
> future generations.
>
> Yes, thank you. But hopefully it didn't come out of
> a board that is now
> gone from the face of the Earth. For instance, what
> happened to that
> Altair CPU board you bought because you wanted the
> CPU?
>
> > 3. The argument that a chip is better off inside
> a vintage computer is like
> > saying
> > a coin is better off in circulation serving
> its "intended" purpose than
> > in some
> > collectors collection.
>
> If that's where the chip came from then yes, it is.
> By removing the chip
> from a computer it once powered or helped work, you
> are removing it from
> its historical context. From a hobbyists point of
> view, you are taking
> something that once worked, removing one part of it
> that will make it
> unfunctioning, and then relishing the one, now
> non-functioning, part over
> the whole in which it once ran.
>
> > 4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay
> alot of money for are "rare"
> > varieties
> > of "common" chips. For example, an Intel
> C8080 vs. C8080A. Vintage
> > computer enthusiasts don't "need" an Intel
> C8080. In fact, you would
> > probably
> > be better off with the more common and
> "improved" C8080A.
>
> Well, chip collectors don't really "need" an Intel
> C8080 either, when a
> C8080A will do quite nicely as a representative
> sample, right? Unless
> you have a cereal box prize mentality and must
> "collect all 8!"
>
> > 5. I think that alot of vintage computer
> enthusiasts think that chip
> > collectors are
> > out there busting up Altair 8800's with
> sledge hammers to get the chips
> > out of
> > them. That's simply not true. Chip
> collectors hang out on in the same
> > areas of EBAY that you do. We know full well
> what rare machines are
> > worth.
> > I'll assure you, chip collectors are not
> breaking up old machines for
> > chips.
>
> What happened to that Altair CPU board?
>
> > In fact, it's just the opposite. I know a
> number of vintage machines
> > that have
> > been "saved" by chip collectors because they
> recognized what they were.
>
> Examples? What happened to the chips?
>
> > If you really want a supply of vintage chips
> for your vintage machines
> > in
> > 20-30 years then you should be glad that a
> C8008 brings $100 on EBAY
> > because of chip collectors. The reason you
> should be glad is because
> > as the
> > word gets out that the early chips are worth
> money, less of them will
> > end up
> > in the trash.
>
> You're assuming some chip collector 20-30 years down
> the road will be
> willing to part with his rare C8008 that is now part
> of his amazing
> collection of dead silicon. Because in all
> likelihood that's what it will
> be anyway: dead.
>
> > that you guys have and not because of the
> chips in them either. That
> > said,
> > we also recognize that the chips themselves
> have historic value and
> > should
> > be preserved.
>
> And we do too. We're the greatest chip collectors
> because we have whole
> computers full of them.
>
> > Many chip collectors would like to one day
> obtain a
> > working vintage machine but I know more than
> a few who have abandoned
> > this idea once they figured out that many
> vintage computer enthusiasts
> > have such a negative view of chip collectors.
>
> Bullshit. You keep making this silly remark. I
> believe this is your
> opinion and your opinion alone. You're not gaining
> any sympathy.
>
> > The same younger computer enthusiasts are the
> very people you need to
> > keep your
> > hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the
> same people will try and
> > entire
> > your world from the world of chip collecting
> and be totally turned off
> > by your
> > attitudes toward chip collectors.
>
> Blah blah. Name one chip collector that has been
> turned off by the
> comments on this list. Now name all the chip
> collectors you steered away
> from this list because you feel we are biased
> against chip collectors.
>
> Sellam Ismail
> Vintage Computer Festival
>
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Received on Sat Nov 16 2002 - 13:00:00 GMT