for sale etiquette?

From: Patrick Rigney <>
Date: Tue May 25 20:33:37 2004

I know Sellam has already replied, and I share his sentiments. But I'd like
to add:

> >>> (the VCM's terms of service are unacceptable to me for [...]
> >> Yeah, there's some funny stuff in those T&C.
> > Such as?
> Speaking personally?
> - They require you to agree to California legal jurisdiction
> [snip]


> - They require that the site be accessed via Web browsers only
> [snip]

Loose, I'll admit, but it's aimed at spammers and hackers, I think everyone
can see that.

> - It requires that I use my full legal name. I don't even know what...

My Pendantic-O-Meter is pinned. You admit that it's the name you use "in
computer circles", so by your own words it is therefore a nickname. I think
you're an intelligent and thoughtful enough person to understand the spirit
and purpose of what we're asking for, and frankly having to argue this point
with you is tedious. Knowing a person's real name is customary in
establishing trust between parties, and it transcends international
boundaries. Having a nickname is fine, use it for your handle. Paint it on
your car, whatever. Give us the name by which you're known to Revenue
Canada--that's probably an adequate specification.

> - I may not engage in "activities that may adversely affect the
> performance or stability of the Site". If I may not do
> anything that
> risks crashing it accidentally, I can't even _touch_ it!

Fair enough, we can make this specific to deliberate malicious purposes.
That's a good point.

> - I am (well, would be) liable for my own acts and omissions, but the
> VCM isn't: "To the fullest extent permitted by law, the foregoing
> indemnities will apply regardless of any fault, omission,
> negligence,
> or breach of warranty or contract of the Operators of the Site or
> their suppliers, vendors, and assigns". Sorry; responsibility is a
> two-way street.

You've quoted the statement out of context. It's specific to the clause in
which it appears, and even makes reference to those specific conditions.
You're either bending the meaning, or you've just misinterpreted it. It has
nothing to do with (and doesn't establish) any indemnity you as a member
might have to provide for a cause of our sole doing. In fact, there's no
specific provision, or limitation, for such a cause, and that's probably a
pretty serious hole to our disadvantage.

Thanks, Ashley, for your comments. We're not trying to be assholes. We're
providing a free service, although that service has real costs for which we
pay out of pocket. And there are people out there who are unscrupulous and
will try to abuse it or us. We can't give greater warranties than our given
to us by the various vendors, and we can't assume liability that isn't
commensurate with the value of the agreement, and that value is currently

Received on Tue May 25 2004 - 20:33:37 BST

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