What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

From: thedm <thedm_at_sunflower.com>
Date: Thu Jul 10 21:33:00 1997

Actually, I collect for the sake of collecting, I make no money off it, ask
my wife :) I collect so in 10 more years, I can play with toys I played
with 20 years ago. That and to watch everyone freak when they see my
dinosaurs alive and feeding on a daily basis.

On a subnote, you all are intelligent people, but man, I think some folks
need to lighten up and enjoy the water. But I guess, one part of me just
can't relate to, is the "cost of downloading" mail, but I suppose there are
situations where that is a problem, me, I have a cablemodem, so im spoiled
rotten.

As far as knowing what we all have, maybe we should add to our rescue list,
a non fancy, listing of what everyone has, not for trading, but just as a
reference. Then when I'm at my next flea market...etc. I can say, "Hey, I
know John dosn't have a Coco1, maybe he'd like one, it's 2 bucks, Heck, I
just grab it."

Cya in the funny papers.
Bill G.

----------
> From: Brett <danjo_at_xnet.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp_at_u.washington.edu>
> Subject: What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View
> Date: Thursday, July 10, 1997 8:34 PM
>
>
> First - if you don't want to hear my opinion - stop now! I am going to
> get pretty detailed about what the list is/should be about. I may hurt
> some feelings - but well hell - that's life!
>
> First from Enrico -
>
> > On the contrary, I think that people are unsubscribing because in this
> > mailing list about collecting Classic icons there is NOT ENOUGH
> > discussion about the history of the computing boom and the hows and
> > whys that led to it. To just limit the discussion to the mere hardware
> > is narrow minded and shows the kind of attitude which leads to consider
> > "the other" (the one which begs to differ) as an enemy or at least as
> > an intruder. The "dont' bother us as we know what we should be talking
> > about" attitude might be legal and understandable but is it wise?
>
> No it is NOT wise! However - it is *as you said* understandable. Each
> person is a collection of feelings and memories, sometimes refered to
> as a *pile of the past*. Each of us has had different experiences in
> EVERYTHING we do. No two people view life the EXACT same way.
>
> Currently, this list is set on the aquistion of hardware. One reason
> is to get it before it's GONE. Another, is the ECONOMY of collecting.
> (I buy it for 10 and sell it for 15 Sam 8-) The point being, in two
> years, if we did nothing - you may NEVER be able to buy it because
> someone junked it! Nothing wrong with making hay while the sun shines.
>
> The history of computing doesn't lend itself to the IMMEDIACY of
hardware.
> The history of computing IS. There is no cost in learning it,
> understanding it, and aquiring it.
>
> Now, if everybody on the list had an Apple, an Amiga, an Altair, an
Imsai,
> a DEC 11/24, an IBM 360, two Commodore 64s, a BBC, etc,etc,etc THEN we
> might sit down and discuss the history. We can discuss it now - but I
> would rather be gathering all the hardware I can get my hands on NOW and
> think about the history.
>
> I would probably die if someone wanted to give me the Intellec MDS that
> Gary wrote CPM on. That is too much to hope for in this world 8-)
>
> > As already said here several times, computers are bits of metal and
> > plastic. They are important for the sentiments and the feelings they
> > managed to raise in each and everybody (and soul) of us. You keep your
> > hardware (and I will keep mine so that I can leave it to future
> > generations) but I will keep my principles and if this will mean I
> > will have to do without you, then (I will be sorry but) be it.
>
> As said before, we are all different. I will gladly discuss the history
> of computing. However, if I stray from why I think Turing was a genius
> to WOW I JUST GOT MY RL02 TO BOOT MY 11/23 - you will have to forgive me.
> I'm just that kind of guy.
>
> On the other hand tho - WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? I have
seen
> the messages from you in the last two weeks and you have not mentioned
> *history* at all! You have mentioned the social and psychological impact
> of why we collect individual machines - it the same with cars - it the
> same with ANY collectable. But it is NOT what I call - History. Nobody
> NEEDS a twenty year old computer! Not in the USE sense - they NEED them
to
> remind them of the good times in the past. That spark of WONDER or GLORY
> or FULLFILLMENT they got from that item. The same as ANY collectable. If
> you have no sense of wonder or glory or fulfillment - you don't collect
> for the sake of collecting - you are collecting for the ECONOMICS of
> collecting.
>
> On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote:
>
> > You're absolutely, terribly correct. In our benighted shortsightedness
> > we have been ignoring the core, the soul, nay, the very existentialism
> > of the historical man-machine interface and the personal hygiene of
Gary
> > Kildall. These bits of metal and plastic have become a zen-like cyborg
> [snipped but saved]
> > becoming no more than Waldos while Charles Babbage's heart is ripped
> > from his chest by ravens dark as toner, eight claws upon each talon.
> >
> > Kai
>
> Beautiful! I have not (except for Bill's bathroom story) been so
> wonderfully entertained and amused by posts to the list than this!
> You've gone up a notch in my book.
>
> Glenn Roberts wrote:
> >
> > I for one certainly support Bill's efforts to keep this list on target.
>
> Enrico replied
>
> Yes, agreed, BUT the pint being made here is WHICH is the target? Just
> hardware OR history of the machines as well?
>
> Pint! Oh point 8-(
> I think Bill summed it up - go ahead - but don't *expect* anyone to
> discuss it with you. The list hasn't been around long enough to develop
> a *personality*. (Did I speak to late!?!?)
>
> The list doesn't HAVE a POINT. But the people on it do.
>
> We gather here and there in the faint glow of Cathode Ray Tubes connected
> throughout the world by the wonder of modern man - The Internet - and
> discuss computers that are older than 10 years. Some will never again
> be seen as useful. As some say - "They can have my DEC, when they pry it
> from my cold dead hands!" Some will use them, some will sell them, some
> will lurk in the dark corners, some will boil to the surface with an
> explosion of estatic joy and/or humor, some will solder little
> thingmajiggies together, some will droll on and on about some favorite
> piece of hardware or software, some will leave and others will come. It's
> called "community" - the one thing man has over all other animals. It
> isn't easy, and it isn't hard. There is give and take. Those who give
> constantly will be consumed, Those that only take - will eventually be
> bored.
>
> The problem - currently - is Enrico. You have not either explained what
> you want (I certainly don't understand) or what you want isn't here. If
> you can explain - in terms we can understand - I am sure that your
desires
> can be fullfilled by this list as well as Sam's (sorry Sam - I see you as
> a hardware mogul - more more more 8-) It is usually best, I have found,
to
> walk into a group and listen to what is being said. If an opportunity
> presents itself, interject a question. (I remember that you did this very
> well Enrico) Then if the current discussion recognizes your question, in
> a positive way, you should then be permitted to state your case. This did
> not happen! You should then wait for another opportunity. There is no
> rule that if someone shows interest, you can not start you OWN
> conversation. Just don't keep it on the list - take it to EMail. If
> something important is discussed in private EMail, by all means, if all
> concerned agree - put it on the list. This then becomes more than a
> single observation and then the impact upon the group has more weight.
>
> I also get a little perturbed when people state "This Weekends Haul".
> I really don't have the time or inclination to read about all the neat
> stuff I DID NOT get. I understand the joy and amazement of those of you
> who do make great deals (Sam Grrrrrr....) but it only makes me feel more
> or less - left out! I usually get one machine (my biggest haul was 12
> clone motherboards - not even NEAR on topic!) and then gather all the
> info I can to get it to work the way it was supposed to. Then every six
> months I get antsy and fire them all up - just to make sure - and then
> spend another month getting them all to work right again. And two months
> paying off the electric bill. BUT - I DO want to know what everybody has!
> If I need help - I will know who to go to! Right now - I just fire out a
> question and get the responses. That is because this is a community.
>
> Things to remember - every community has a town drunk, a town clown,
> a town cop, and a town fool. It wouldn'tbe a community without them.
>
> BC
Received on Thu Jul 10 1997 - 21:33:00 BST