On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
> Oh please. You're saying that none of those machines would have happened
> without the Altair? What do you define as the "first wave of cheap
> computers"? The week that the Altair came out? All the computers I
> mentioned were within a year of the first production model of the Altair.
> Altair or not, they would have still been created.
Micral, Mark-8, Scelbi 8H were the first wave. I don't know of any 4004
micros other than the MCS-4, but I doubt it was especially cheap or widely
available compared to some of the others, and compared especially to the
computers that came before.
We have no way of knowing what *would* have happened if Intel hadn't
invented the 4004 or if MITS hadn't invented the Altair, all we know is
what *did* happen.
You seem to be saying the the F14 computer could have been important if
several events which didn't happen would have happended and if several
events which did happen hadn't -- that's pointless pseudo-revision.
> Your sense of "history" seems to be narrowly focused on only what you've
> read, and does not at all reflect a comprehensive study of what actually
> took place. I'm not claiming to be all-knowing about what happened back
> in the early 70s with regard to microprocessor technology and
> microcomputer development, but I can tell that I have a greater
> understanding of what was really going on back then. I take my knowledge
> from first-hand sources who lived it.
Then you've kept this important knowledge hidden from us all. Please tell
us. If there's a bit of Ray Holt in the machine I'm writing this mess
from, I want to know!
> Oh, I get it! Intel's version of the events constitutes the WHOLE story,
> and all those "other guys" were silly and insignificant operations that
> made NO IMPACT WHATSOEVER on the progress of personal computing. Give me
> a break.
I've never read Intel's versions of the events -- all I have to go on are
artifacts. I'm not aware of any computer artifacts that support the idea
that somebody else enabled cheap computers to be made before Intel did.
If you're suggesting that Holt was somehow involved in a "race" or somehow
influenced Intel to move when they did, that hasn't come through. Holt's
F14 computer's influence on the microcomputer industry is still completely
invisible to me. What am I missing? Where do I need to look to find this
influence?
> Your argument seems to be centered on commercial success, in which case
> you are giving the 4004 too much credit, since that did not occur until
> much later on with the 8080, the 6800 and the 6502.
Not at all. I'm focusing completely on your argument that Holt did
something important "first." Your whole argument seems to center on a
fairly unimportant part of the meaning of the word "microprocessor".
Let's say that the word "microprocessor" was never coined and that Intel
just created a CPU called the 4004 that begat the 8008, 8080, Pentium,
etc. That would seem to completely destroy the relevance of the F14
computer as far as microcomputers are concerned, but it does nothing to
deminish the importance of the 4004.
Nobody doubts that computers existed before Intel came along, or that LSI
was being done by others at the same time or even earlier, but to focus on
an LSI-based computer that came before the 4004 is to completely miss the
importance of the 4004. LSI was just a means to an end: cheap computers.
How much did the F14's computer cost, BTW?
> Assigning Intel all the credit for virtually creating the industry is
> absurd. It certainly was not obvious back then that Intel would be
> grossing $21billion in 1998 and have a virtual monopoly on personal
> computing electronics. It was anyone's game. But perhaps I'm assuming
> you've studied the history, which doesn't seem to be the case.
At no point did I mention Intel's long-term success. This discussion all
along has been about the Big Bang that led eventually to cheap computers
for all of us. My understanding is that you're saying that the F14
computer was the Big Bang. Did I misunderstand you? I'm saying that the
4004 was the Big Bang; that the dust from that explosion still bears the
Intel imprint is interesting, but that's a different topic.
-- Doug
Received on Wed Oct 07 1998 - 21:25:23 BST
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0
: Fri Oct 10 2014 - 23:31:25 BST