On 15 Apr 99 at 16:07, Max Eskin wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote:
> > I used to admire your brash freshness and sense of social justice but now I
> >must question which brand of the new Soviet mafia you are enamored of .
>
> I am a sort of intermediary between the various factions...
>
> > Correct me if I'm wrong Max but I believe you live in NYC. Are you telling me
> >that everyone in NYC has a computer who desires one ? This glut of computers
> >that you had "fun" destroying, was there really any attempt to distribute them
> >to the various communities and people who might desire a computer?
>
> Actually, I live in Boston, but your point remains the same. The problem
> is simply that these computers aren't new enough. They can be used for
> anything that a new one can be used for, but they won't read the newest MS
> Word files. Microsoft made sure of that. Believe it or not, people can be
> very picky about such things. Also, there is the issue that the computer
> will never be used, or will get thrown away the next day, whatever. The
> point is that there is no justification for the trouble it takes to
> distribute computers to individuals. If these individuals want to get a
> computer, fine. I have found dozens of computers in garbage cans, I'm sure
> they can do no worse.
>
The advantage we have is that we are not intimidated by the technology and
can fix them. I am heartened by some of the examples listed which get these
machines out to people who can use them, especially the one that used them
for teaching kids how to repair and then keep their machines.
A lot of the disposable societies glut is because the majority of people
haven't got a clue as to how their convenience machine works. If it stops
fuctioning toss it and buy another. I'm amazed at what I find in the garbage.
A good percentage of the time, it's just a faulty power cord.
I don't use MS Word myself nor for that matter code-bloated Windblows 9x
and don't find myself at any disadvantage except for some of the newer programs
that demand 32 bit. I can do without them. There are plenty of programs
available in the various archives to do my tasks.
> > United States is held in contempt by much of the world just because of it's
> >gluttinous consumer society attitudes. Surely CC is an example that shows
> >that that is not the prevailing belief.. Most of us have respect for the labor
> >and industry that went into these creations, usually ill-rewarded and often
> >unrecognized. I would like to think that is the deeper feeling that motivates
> >us, not the rising E-pay prices.
>
> The USA is held in contempt for many reasons, and the consumer society
> attitude is part of a larger problem. Personally, I do not like to damage
> anything, but once in a while, I like to have some fun. If I didn't do
> that, I wouldn't be motivated to do anything useful in between. These
> computers aren't classic, and aren't examples of labor/industry. They
> weren't made by human hands, they mostly weren't even designed by human
> hands. The only place where human hands stood to get mangled was by
> getting paper cuts against the dollar bills and credit cards.
>
Your definition of "fun" eludes me. Maybe I'm just too old.
> > I have been fascinated by the destructive angst of North American kids and
> >have equivicated it to powerlessness and a reaction against a materialistic
> >society but have still watched in awe as some project kids gleefully reduce
> >an auto to meaningless junk. If it was my own kids I would kick shit out of
> >them and realise I knew them not.
>
> My rising familiarity with technology past and present leads me to
> question whether it wasn't meaningless junk before...seriously, if these
> kids didn't own the car, they have a bigger problem, and should probably
> get a sound beating. If it was their car, I can quite understand their
> desire to release their exasperation. Isn't it better to smash a car than
> a person? I guess you have lived a good life, and so have I, but even I
> sometimes feel like nothing matters anymore, I'm so frustrated. And for
> people living in the projects, it must be so much more serious.
>
My point exactly. I think that as a society we are in deep shit if this is the
prevailing feeling of our children.
> >when indoor toilets were a luxury I sometimes take a reality check and am
>
> How old are you, anyway?
>
That was in a rural villiage in Manitoba in the midforties and quite common
outside the cities.
> >astounded at what we now take for granted. I can actually record any event
> >audio or visually and manipulate that data. I can print without typing or even
> >print my voice dictation. I can hear a printed text if I desire or have access
> >to a vast library of books or other media. Not to mention encyclopedias
> >without end and news without editorial control.
>
> So what? I haven't found any useful purpose for recording events visually
> and manipulating the data. The government sure has, and I think that's an
> important fact. It's the government and the corporations that use this
> technology, not us. But, we make use of such notions as generosity and
> altruism, which a country or a corporation is incapable of.
>
What I am alluding to is the magnitude and rapidity of change in technology in
this century. Events have occurred that are beyond the imagination of even the
most visionary sci-fi writers from early in this century. All of us use every
day things that would be mind-numbing to a previous generation. TV, VSRs,
pocket tape recorders, not to mention things like the Internet where you can be
in almost instantaneous contact with people all over the world.
Governments have always used the prevailing media to manipulate people. The
sophistication of it is all thats changed. But of course it's a double edged
sword as evidenced by various gov. unsuccessful so far attempts to control the
media. eg Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey and of course Mexico with the Chiapas
rebels.
> > I am reminded that my mothers fresh home made bread was accompanied with an
> >admoniton that we had to stop feasting our avericious young appetites on the
> >delicious warm fresh loaves with fresh butter since it would make us sick if
> >too much was ingested. It took me years to discern that it would also deplete
> >the stock of bread from our sparse larders. Try and explain that to a kid in
> >North America (not Mexico) who thinks that bread is plentiful and pretty
> >boring.unless covered in jam.
>
> For one thing, home-baked bread is much less boring than factory-made
> bread. I once went for a walk next to a lake, which was just near a Wonder
> Bread factory. That place smells like a crematorium! All of our advanced
> farming techniques have done nothing besides fatten somebody's wallet and
> increase the incidence of cancer. Over a billion are still starving and nobody
> who can do something wants to do anything about it. Back in the USSR, I
> remember reading a book about --guess what-- saving bread.
>
> A boy gets bored with his piece of bread and begins to play with it. He
> rolls it up into a ball and throws it away. The ball comes alive and
> starts to reproach him. It leads him to the farm where a farmer plants
> seeds, where a driver operates a combine harvester, etc. all the way up to
> the bakery. At the end, the boy says he will never play with bread again.
>
What an exemplary story. We could use more like it rather than the Rambo and
Streetfighter types.
> Just thought I'd mention that one. There is no shortage of bread in this
> world. There is an excess of assholes.
>
Amen to that.
> > The bottom line is that we shoud feel ashamed at anything that goes to
> >landfill that is desired and beneficial even out of respect for the labour
> >that has gone into them. My Take on things.
>
> I am very much of a packrat, that's why I'm on this list. I just take
> breaks sometimes.
>
> --Max Eskin (max82_at_surfree.com)
> http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power
>
>
As the old Chinese curse goes "May you live in interesting times"
ciao larry
lwalker_at_interlog.com
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Received on Thu Apr 15 1999 - 16:07:43 BST