Article about collecting in Antique Trader.#

From: Richard Erlacher <>
Date: Thu Jul 1 18:35:27 1999

I just have to be contrary, here. I was given my first Mouse Systems
Optical Mouse back in '82. That was before either the Lisa or the Mac. I
don't exactly know what the giver thought/wished I would do with it, but
there it was. I was using CP/M at home and office though we did have an
MS-DOS machine.

If attention hadn't been called to the mouse by that time, I doubt someone
would have given me one.


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Date: Thursday, July 01, 1999 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Article about collecting in Antique Trader.#

>> > I don't want to imply a direct technical link here. But it's clear that
>> > Macintosh was influenced by the Lisa. And that Windows was influenced
>> > the Macintosh.
>> Objections!
>> IMHO Windows was _not_ influenced by the mac - at least not
>> at all before 3.x, and not heavyly before 9x. Let me explain:
>I wasn't implying a technical influence. Just that the Mac brought the
>mouse to the public's attention. And thus PCs had to get some kind of
>mouse/GUI. After all, the GUI on the Alto is very different from that on
>the Lisa, which is very different from that on the Mac (at least as I
>remember them).
>In any case, Windows 3.x was an important step. There were _very few_
>(that I remember) third party applications for Windows 1.x or 2.x. In
>fact those versions of Windows tended to come bundled with whatever
>applications needed them (I remember installing Excel on a PC in about
>1988 and it came with a run-time Windows 2.x IIRC).
>But Windows 3.0 appeared (to the user) as a different PC operating system
>(yes, _I_ know it was built on top of MS-DOS, but...). Now you could get
>point-n-drool programs for this OS on a PC.
>> The picture might look like:
>> The Mouse ------------------------------;
>> | SideKick -'-> Windows 1.x/2.x -;-> MS Win
3.x -;-> MS Win 9x
>> | ,-> GEM -'
>> Alto -+-> D machines -> Apple Lisa -> Original Mac -'----------> MacOS
>7.0 -'-> ...
>> | | Close similarities
>> +-> PERQ
>OK, I can certainly accept that.
>All I was really commenting on was the fact that the Lisa attracts a
>price out of all proportion with it's significance. The PERQ and
>D-machines are important as well, but those don't tend to sell for $5000
>or whatever.
>> No, me'n either, but maybe the impact of the PC had been different -
>> these computers did pave the road to use other systems more willingly
>> not just by order of ones boss.
>I would be _very_ supprised if most of today's PC _users_ (as opposed to
>programmers, hackers, etc) started out building a ZX80 19 years ago..
>> P.S.: If you continue, I might be interested in getting a PERQ :)
>You should be. It's an interesting machine. Just be warned that
>microcoding is addictive...
Received on Thu Jul 01 1999 - 18:35:27 BST

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