(was Re: An Organization (was: Do we have a VAX organization?))

From: <(>
Date: Wed Oct 31 00:27:11 2001

Check out as an example of a website supporting
an operating system on an architecture. I was pretty impressed (but then
I'm an OS/2 user) :-)



In <>, on 10/30/01
   at 11:40 PM, Gunther Schadow <> said:

>O.K. as I said in the beginning I really don't like organizational
>issues. That's why I'm getting nervous about the goals here.

>I do agree that Sellam's thing is perhaps the best point to
>start. However, ...

>We certainly don't need another mailing list. With port-vax
>and classiccmp (and occasionally comp.os.vms) we have what we need.
>Certainly we don't need a new style online forum ... those are
>notoriously non-populated.

>I also don't have a sophisticated portal web site in mind.
>Something simple that states the mission of the organization, a few
>articles about why preserving classic computing
>equipment is good. Something that plays down the collectible asset value
>(that's important in many respects!). And most
>important a list of people and their collections and activities all over
>the country and the world. Linking to their project web sites.

>The web site must be simple so it's maintainable. is fairly
>simple, but even so some links and features on the front page don't work,
>and that shouldn't be. Rather have
>less stuff that does the job.

>About local chapters and national meetings etc. I'm sceptical too. It
>couldn't hurt for some of us weirdos to come out and have some face to
>face interaction with real humans, OTOH, this takes even more time away
>for those who are already struggling having a family life and their
>collection (aside from making a living.) We don't want to steal people
>from their spouses and kids.

>I guess that Isildur is right, the non-profit incorporation would be most
>critical. This would actually provide incentives for folks who have stuff
>to decommission. Instead of competing against scrap dealers we would have
>an advantage of a tax deduction for old stuff. That's also why I think we
>must downplay the
>collectible asset value. This should be for the fun and curiosity and
>public service of preservation, and, if possible, public use of the old
>stuff. It should not be to promote a new fad of collectible items in
>order to boost a market, issue price guides, promote pocket book driven
>collections. The PDP-8 market is already going that way.

>BTW: that's also why I appreciate a clear cut between the
> and the things. I wouldn't ask
>Sellam to move any money from his business to the association but the
>appearence of a for-profit business next to VCF
>should not be confounding the non-profit nature of the
>association either.

>In terms of the need for funds, I'm mostly interested in
>a "dachorganization" that would make it possible to put
>old computers into public use. Help those that do. If you
>run a cluster of VAX 11/780, 8600, and couple of 6000s with
>full gear, this makes no sense for the privatier to do
>24/7 in terms of electricity. Add the costs of a decent
>Internet connection too. If you want to show blinkenlights
>(like the cyber PDP-8) you need an even better Internet

>The whole point of mainframes is multi-user applications, so it's only
>natural that the 11/780 wants to serve users
>through the network. One way of doing this would be a
>"vintage-pass" available to the public for a
>fee and for members at a discount. The vintage-pass would
>give people accounts on the systems of all members. This
>could have multiple levels, like dec-pass, vax-pass, pdp-pass, ibm-pass,
>etc. It would include various levels of service,
>such as guest-account, individual-user account, up to
>sysadmin-account. Optional operator services (Joe Jones
>mails his old PDP-11 tapes to bring his old work back
>to life, etc.) You (or your wife or kids) put the tape in
>and go.

>There would be some ethics and legal issues involved. On
>the one hand rules of conduct by the users, monitoring
>malicious activity (e.g., cool things like the killer-
>poke on the PET 2001) to a revival of the worm of 1988.
>Certainly special scrutiny applies for operator or sysadmin
>accounts. On the other hand the privacy of the user and
>his data.

>This is kind of the space I was thinking about.

>Organizing cyber events, video-conferences, a worm of 1988
>revival fest, could be periodic highlights that warrant
>press releases and may draw attention. Perhaps more than
>an annual meeting that people won't usually attend anyway.


>Vintage Computer Festival wrote:

> > On Mon, 29 Oct 2001, Jeffrey Sharp wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I think that what is needed most is an international organization that
> >>covers *all* vintage computers, software, and docs. We need something
> >>that's implemented well enough that most of us would be convinced to
> >>The best starting point I can think of is Sellam's VCF organization:
> >>
> >>* He already has one of the largest inventories of us all. That's a
> >> start towards a "Noah's ark" collection, which I think should be one
> >> function of the organization.
> >>
> >
> > This is in fact one of my missions. I know I won't be able to get
> > single model of every single computer, but I can get close. And this
> > applications of both practicality and posterity.
> >
> >
> >>* He's got, which would be a primo domain name for the
> >> organization.
> >>
> >>* He's got, which would be the fundraising part of
> >> organization. Dues could be another.
> >>
> >
> > Um, for now, the funds that VintageTech generates are intended for the
> > Sellam Ismail organization of getting by ;)
> >
> >
> >>* He's got experience running VCFs.
> >>
> >
> > True dat.
> >
> >
> >>Of course, Sellam would have to be interested in being the
> >>fearless leader!
> >>
> >
> > I appreciate being nominated for this lofty organization. In fact,
> > you've described is what I've been working towards for the past 4-5
> > It's just gone much slower and taken much longer than anticipated due
> > distractions and detours in my life. And this is hard work,
> > for one guy.
> >
> >
> >>Other things the organiztion could do:
> >>
> >>* A central, Yahoo-like web site that would become the world's
> >> resource for vintage computer information. It would try to
> >> all available information for preservation. Individual members
> >> also be given a mechanism to have their collection hosted on the
> >> under a uniform interface. Those who resist assimilation could
> >> have their sites linked to. You could get to info either by
> >> collector name or a category/manufacturer/series/model tree. It
> >> be wonderful...
> >>
> >
> > One day the VCF website will be this portal.
> >
> >
> >>* SIGs would, of course, solidify according to demand. I imagine the
> >> SIG (VSIG?) would be quite well represented. Each SIG could have
> >> own mailing list. The whole thing would be not unlike the FreeBSD
> >> mailing list system.
> >>
> >
> > One of the next things on the agenda (after finishing the VCF
> > is a messaging system. Of course, I don't know how useful this will
>be in
> > the face of this list and other very active and strong lists. I'll
> > the tools out there, it'll be up to folks to put them to good use.
> >
> >
> >>* Rename itself from VCF to IVCA. "International Vintage Computing
> >> Association" to outsiders, "International Vintage Computing Asylum"
> >> for insiders. :-)
> >>
> >
> > The VCF will eventually become an international "society" dedicated to
> > preservation of old computers and computer history. The VCF events
>are to
> > be yearly gatherings that cap off activities that occur throughout the
> > year. My desire for the past couple years has been to sponsor local
> > computer collector clubs throughout the world, to create local
> > that then grows into a connected network of clubs.
> >
> >
> >>* I don't know... other stuff.
> >>
> >>As you can see, I'm all about grandiose ideas. Now won't someone rise
> >>and implement them? :-)
> >>
> >
> > Me too. If I could get organized enough to create an actual
> > then things would move faster. Of course it would require the
> > of other people interested in seeing this vision implemented.
> >
> > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
> >
> > International Man of Intrigue and Danger
> >

Jeffrey S. Worley
Asheville, NC USA
Received on Wed Oct 31 2001 - 00:27:11 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0 : Fri Oct 10 2014 - 23:34:22 BST