Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it]

From: John Galt <gmphillips_at_earthlink.net>
Date: Fri Nov 15 22:01:10 2002

I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my hobby.

1. Most chip collectors are very particular about protecting their chips.
We just don't
     throw them in the bottom of a drawer like some "computer enthusiasts".
I could not
     count the times that I've bought chips on EBAY auctions that were
displayed
     loose in a coffee can from someone who had found them in grandpa's
shop.
     Do you really think these chips are better off going in the trash than
into some
     chip collectors collection?

2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors collection it's not gone from
the face
     of the earth. It's carefully preserved for future generations.

3. The argument that a chip is better off inside a vintage computer is like
saying
     a coin is better off in circulation serving its "intended" purpose than
in some
     collectors collection.

4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay alot of money for are "rare"
varieties
     of "common" chips. For example, an Intel C8080 vs. C8080A. Vintage
     computer enthusiasts don't "need" an Intel C8080. In fact, you would
probably
     be better off with the more common and "improved" C8080A.

5. I think that alot of vintage computer enthusiasts think that chip
collectors are
     out there busting up Altair 8800's with sledge hammers to get the chips
out of
     them. That's simply not true. Chip collectors hang out on in the same
     areas of EBAY that you do. We know full well what rare machines are
worth.
     I'll assure you, chip collectors are not breaking up old machines for
chips.

     In fact, it's just the opposite. I know a number of vintage machines
that have
     been "saved" by chip collectors because they recognized what they were.

6. There are FAR more chips than there are vintage computers. Without chip
     collectors there would not be much of a market for all these chips.
Sure
     you would be able to buy an C8008 for 1$ then but... You would also
have
     people throwing the old chips in the trash because they were not worth
     listing on EBAY.

     If you really want a supply of vintage chips for your vintage machines
in
     20-30 years then you should be glad that a C8008 brings $100 on EBAY
     because of chip collectors. The reason you should be glad is because
as the
     word gets out that the early chips are worth money, less of them will
end up
     in the trash.

7. Chips collectors will often sell chips for LESS than you would pay for
them
     from a parts distributor. Also, many distributors will not sell small
quantities.
     I have sold spare chips out of my collection to vintage computer
enthusiasts.
     Most collectors have "spares" that they acquire for trading. If you
need a
     particular chip, changes are good that you can get one from a collector
if
     you offer the collector some other chip that you have several of.

8. There's only a handful of "serious" collectors who are willing to pay
     $500-$1000 for rare versions of early chips. Most chip
     collectors collect 186's, 286's, 386's, 486's, etc. In otherwords,
chips that
     vintage computer enthusiasts don't really care about anyway.

     The only thing vintage computer enthusiasts notice is that old chips
routinely
     bring hundreds of dollars of EBAY. What you don't notice is that it's
the same
     group of a dozen collectors that are buying them. If the handful of
serious chip
     collectors were to each obtain an example of every chip every made, it
would
     not have much effect at all on the ability of vintage computer
enthusiasts to
     obtain replacement parts for your machines. If you want to blame
someone
     for the high price of vintage chips, blame the people who melted down
millions
     of them for their gold content in the 80's, don't blame the handful of
serious
     chip collectors.

9. I agree that a functioning vintage machine is "more interesting" than a
chip
     in a display case. Most vintage chip collectors drool over the vintage
machines
     that you guys have and not because of the chips in them either. That
said,
     we also recognize that the chips themselves have historic value and
should
     be preserved. Many chip collectors would like to one day obtain a
     working vintage machine but I know more than a few who have abandoned
     this idea once they figured out that many vintage computer enthusiasts
     have such a negative view of chip collectors.

     That said, it's alot easier to get into chip collecting than vintage
computer
     collecting. Chip collecting has the potential to bring alot of new
faces
     into the world of vintage computers but unfortunately I don't see that
     happening any time soon.

     What many of you old timers don't realize it that the "youngsters" that
came
     along after the 8088 naturally see computers as a collection of
components.
     Computer enthusiasts today don't buy prebuilt machines, they build them
     from components and then constantly upgrade them. The very concept of
     of collecting an entire machine is foreign to them because their
machines
     are constantly changing.

     That said, many of these types already have chip collections, their
collections are old
     CPU's they saved when they upgraded their machines over the years. You
bring
     up chip collecting and they say that's pretty cool, I already have a
small collection.

     The same younger computer enthusiasts are the very people you need to
keep your
     hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the same people will try and
entire
     your world from the world of chip collecting and be totally turned off
by your
     attitudes toward chip collectors.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Chase" <vaxzilla_at_jarai.org>
To: <cctalk_at_classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:13 PM
Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it]


> On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Will Jennings wrote:
>
> > I find that sellers auctions disturbing, since at least one the boards
> > has a comment of "just removed from the rack" : (
>
> I find the whole practice of "chip collecting" a bit disturbing. Mainly
> because it means functioning, useful, components are becoming scarcer
> for those people who could actually put them to use. And then
> secondarily, it creates a market for the willful destruction of what
> might be otherwise working systems or subsystems.
>
> There's difficulty in attempting to educate people that working systems
> are more interesting, and valuable, than disassembled bits of them. It
> /is/ solely a matter of viewpoint, and not everyone has the skills or
> resources to collect like most people here do, but getting even a few of
> them to see things our way is progress.
>
> Evangelizing on the behalf of classic computing is something we all
> should be doing. I tend to do a lot of that when it comes to my VAXen.
> And where permitted, I always have a classic computer or two on the
> network at my workplace. The NeXT that's beside my new iMac at work
> always raises eyebrows and generates a lot of questions.
>
> Other things that help are contributing to the various computer museums
> (money, unique equipment, your time, etc.) Providing information to
> people on this list is useful. The documentation scanning projects are
> wonderful resources. The publicity generated by things like the VCF is
> good; Sellam getting visibity in Wired and on Tech TV raises awareness
> in a broader audience than could be otherwise achieved. And I think
> books like _Collectible Microcomputers_ and Christian Wurster's
> _Computers: An Illustrated History_ are useful to have lying around as
> coffee table material.
>
> -brian.
>
>
Received on Fri Nov 15 2002 - 22:01:10 GMT