Fw: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it]

From: John Galt <gmphillips_at_earthlink.net>
Date: Fri Nov 15 22:03:36 2002

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Galt" <gmphillips_at_earthlink.net>
To: <cctech_at_classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it]


> I'm a chip collector and I would like to take a moment to defend my hobby.
>
> 1. Most chip collectors are very particular about protecting their chips.
> We just don't
> throw them in the bottom of a drawer like some "computer
enthusiasts".
> I could not
> count the times that I've bought chips on EBAY auctions that were
> displayed
> loose in a coffee can from someone who had found them in grandpa's
> shop.
> Do you really think these chips are better off going in the trash
than
> into some
> chip collectors collection?
>
> 2. Once a chip ends up in a chip collectors collection it's not gone from
> the face
> of the earth. It's carefully preserved for future generations.
>
> 3. The argument that a chip is better off inside a vintage computer is
like
> saying
> a coin is better off in circulation serving its "intended" purpose
than
> in some
> collectors collection.
>
> 4. Many of the chips that chip collectors pay alot of money for are
"rare"
> varieties
> of "common" chips. For example, an Intel C8080 vs. C8080A. Vintage
> computer enthusiasts don't "need" an Intel C8080. In fact, you would
> probably
> be better off with the more common and "improved" C8080A.
>
> 5. I think that alot of vintage computer enthusiasts think that chip
> collectors are
> out there busting up Altair 8800's with sledge hammers to get the
chips
> out of
> them. That's simply not true. Chip collectors hang out on in the
same
> areas of EBAY that you do. We know full well what rare machines are
> worth.
> I'll assure you, chip collectors are not breaking up old machines for
> chips.
>
> In fact, it's just the opposite. I know a number of vintage machines
> that have
> been "saved" by chip collectors because they recognized what they
were.
>
> 6. There are FAR more chips than there are vintage computers. Without
chip
> collectors there would not be much of a market for all these chips.
> Sure
> you would be able to buy an C8008 for 1$ then but... You would also
> have
> people throwing the old chips in the trash because they were not
worth
> listing on EBAY.
>
> If you really want a supply of vintage chips for your vintage
machines
> in
> 20-30 years then you should be glad that a C8008 brings $100 on EBAY
> because of chip collectors. The reason you should be glad is because
> as the
> word gets out that the early chips are worth money, less of them will
> end up
> in the trash.
>
> 7. Chips collectors will often sell chips for LESS than you would pay for
> them
> from a parts distributor. Also, many distributors will not sell
small
> quantities.
> I have sold spare chips out of my collection to vintage computer
> enthusiasts.
> Most collectors have "spares" that they acquire for trading. If you
> need a
> particular chip, changes are good that you can get one from a
collector
> if
> you offer the collector some other chip that you have several of.
>
> 8. There's only a handful of "serious" collectors who are willing to pay
> $500-$1000 for rare versions of early chips. Most chip
> collectors collect 186's, 286's, 386's, 486's, etc. In otherwords,
> chips that
> vintage computer enthusiasts don't really care about anyway.
>
> The only thing vintage computer enthusiasts notice is that old chips
> routinely
> bring hundreds of dollars of EBAY. What you don't notice is that
it's
> the same
> group of a dozen collectors that are buying them. If the handful of
> serious chip
> collectors were to each obtain an example of every chip every made,
it
> would
> not have much effect at all on the ability of vintage computer
> enthusiasts to
> obtain replacement parts for your machines. If you want to blame
> someone
> for the high price of vintage chips, blame the people who melted down
> millions
> of them for their gold content in the 80's, don't blame the handful
of
> serious
> chip collectors.
>
> 9. I agree that a functioning vintage machine is "more interesting" than
a
> chip
> in a display case. Most vintage chip collectors drool over the
vintage
> machines
> that you guys have and not because of the chips in them either.
That
> said,
> we also recognize that the chips themselves have historic value and
> should
> be preserved. Many chip collectors would like to one day obtain a
> working vintage machine but I know more than a few who have abandoned
> this idea once they figured out that many vintage computer
enthusiasts
> have such a negative view of chip collectors.
>
> That said, it's alot easier to get into chip collecting than vintage
> computer
> collecting. Chip collecting has the potential to bring alot of new
> faces
> into the world of vintage computers but unfortunately I don't see
that
> happening any time soon.
>
> What many of you old timers don't realize it that the "youngsters"
that
> came
> along after the 8088 naturally see computers as a collection of
> components.
> Computer enthusiasts today don't buy prebuilt machines, they build
them
> from components and then constantly upgrade them. The very concept
of
> of collecting an entire machine is foreign to them because their
> machines
> are constantly changing.
>
> That said, many of these types already have chip collections, their
> collections are old
> CPU's they saved when they upgraded their machines over the years.
You
> bring
> up chip collecting and they say that's pretty cool, I already have a
> small collection.
>
> The same younger computer enthusiasts are the very people you need to
> keep your
> hobby going but the sad thing is, many of the same people will try
and
> entire
> your world from the world of chip collecting and be totally turned
off
> by your
> attitudes toward chip collectors.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Chase" <vaxzilla_at_jarai.org>
> To: <cctalk_at_classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:13 PM
> Subject: Promoting Classic Computers [was Re: Chip with holes in it]
>
>
> > On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Will Jennings wrote:
> >
> > > I find that sellers auctions disturbing, since at least one the boards
> > > has a comment of "just removed from the rack" : (
> >
> > I find the whole practice of "chip collecting" a bit disturbing. Mainly
> > because it means functioning, useful, components are becoming scarcer
> > for those people who could actually put them to use. And then
> > secondarily, it creates a market for the willful destruction of what
> > might be otherwise working systems or subsystems.
> >
> > There's difficulty in attempting to educate people that working systems
> > are more interesting, and valuable, than disassembled bits of them. It
> > /is/ solely a matter of viewpoint, and not everyone has the skills or
> > resources to collect like most people here do, but getting even a few of
> > them to see things our way is progress.
> >
> > Evangelizing on the behalf of classic computing is something we all
> > should be doing. I tend to do a lot of that when it comes to my VAXen.
> > And where permitted, I always have a classic computer or two on the
> > network at my workplace. The NeXT that's beside my new iMac at work
> > always raises eyebrows and generates a lot of questions.
> >
> > Other things that help are contributing to the various computer museums
> > (money, unique equipment, your time, etc.) Providing information to
> > people on this list is useful. The documentation scanning projects are
> > wonderful resources. The publicity generated by things like the VCF is
> > good; Sellam getting visibity in Wired and on Tech TV raises awareness
> > in a broader audience than could be otherwise achieved. And I think
> > books like _Collectible Microcomputers_ and Christian Wurster's
> > _Computers: An Illustrated History_ are useful to have lying around as
> > coffee table material.
> >
> > -brian.
> >
> >
>
Received on Fri Nov 15 2002 - 22:03:36 GMT