----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard_at_p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: <cctalk_at_classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: vintage computers and lead poisoning?
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Teo Zenios wrote:
> >
> > > I can't think of any electronic devices made today that are
repairable.
> > > Personally the way electronics evolve I would rather buy a new DVD
player
> > > every 3 years for $60 then buy one for $500 and keep it even when its
> > > obsolete. Its all about the money.
> >
> > To say nothing of the evolution of new (sometimes cool or useful)
> > features...
>
> I really can't agree with you.
>
> If we froget the environmental reason (it's clearly better to repair than
> replace something), and we forget the moral reason that I object to
> owning something I can't fix (and so far this has _not_ happened -- I'll
> fix anything I own or am likely to own!), there's another more important
> point...
>
> Are you sure you can get a new DVD player in 3 years time (OK, in 10
> years time, but that's only 3-new-players in the future)? If not, what
> are you going to play your DVDs on?
>
> There are 2 sides to this : Things you've recorded yourself and
> commercial recordings.
>
> Suppose you'd made a number of significant, irreproduceable recordings on
> Elcassettes? What would you do now, assuming you couldn't fix your
> Elcassette machine? Suppose you'd been sensible 20 years ago anf bought a
> V2000 VCR (which was by far the best home format. What would you play the
> tapes on? Or 8 track audio cartridges...
>
> In the case of DVDs, I believe they are often copy-protected. So you may
> not be able to copy them onto whatever new format exists in 10 years
> time. Are you really happy to buy all your films again? I certainly am
> not. I accept that if I buy a cinema ticket, then I can watch that film
> once in the cinema. If I rent a video tape or DVD from the local video
> shop then I can watch in as many times as I like but only during the time
> I've rented it for (and I cna't copy it, or anything like that). But if I
> buy a video tape or DVD then I don't believe I am buying a time-limited
> license, and I should be able to watch it as far in the future as I wish.
> I certainly wouldn't want to buy the same film again just because some
> new recording format had come out!
>
> Most of the older recording devices can still be repaired because many of
> the electronic compoenents weren't custom, the mechanical bits can often
> be made in a good home workshop, and proper component-level service
> manuals exist.
>
> Oh, and don't give me that crap about always copying to the latest
> format. It plain doesn't happen.
>
> To turn this back to classic computing, suppose somebody has a 386
> machine with an ST506 drive connected to a controller in an ISA slot. Now
> suppose some simple, TTL, chip on the motherboard fails. Do you really
> believe that telling them to buy a new motherboard, processor, case/PSU
> (the new systme will be ATX, presumably the old one was an AT-clone),
> maybe monitor, hard disk, and find some way of transferring their data
> over (modern machines don't seem to have ISA slots) is a good idea? Or
> would it be simpler, quicker, and cheaper to fix the darn thing properly.
>
> -tony
>
There will always be devices to listen to your old recordings, you can still
find record players and vcrs all over the place along with tape decks.
All the new computers are made with custom parts many of which are
proprietary and very hard to replace because of surface mounting. The reason
electronics are so cheap today is because of the massive integration of
components. The whole throw away commodity industry has also caused the
massive recycling movement. Instead of landfilling all the old items they
get recycled now and reused. Very few people can troubleshoot problems to
component levels (and most don't even want to if they could) and with the
prices for new items being so low most of the repair shops in the industry
have closed. How many people go to tech school to be an electronics
repairman? I can look in my basement and find 100's of devices that still
work just fine but are obsolete to anyone except a collector, so even if we
repaired everything it would still end up in the trash sooner or later.
I would say quite a few of the people here grew up at the same time as the
computer industry and know how to fix and troubleshoot computers, but the
next generations will only know specialized areas of it.
Received on Sat Jun 05 2004 - 08:53:02 BST