On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, chris wrote:
> >Apple //gs - $20 each
>
> Wanna buy some from me?!? At that price I'll be happy to sell you a few.
No thanks. I already have close to a dozen myself.
> >Apple //c new in box - $50
>
> If it is really new in box, then yeah, I could agree with that price. But
> I have seen MANY things claimed as "new in box" that are really "we used
> it for 12 years, and before throwing it out realized we still had the old
> box so we repacked it". I have seen very few really new in box items, so
> I am sceptical to those claims.
Whether it is truly "new" in the box or just includes the original box
makes little difference, particularly in this case, since having the
original box for any old computer is not common. It adds a certain
premium to the machine for those that value such things (as do I, mainly
since it definitely has historic relevance).
> >Mac Plus - $5
> >Monitors - $5 each
> >Misc. drives - $10
> >"scads of software and manuals" - I'm assuming "scads" is worth about $25
>
> I consider all of the above to be "Thanks" prices. ie: they really aren't
> worth anything, but you feel compelled to give the person something for
> being nice enough to save you the effort of digging thru the trash to get
> it.
Exactly. Which is why my end price basically discounted these things from
the itemized pricing.
However, you are still undervaluing the software and manuals. Assume they
had 20-25 original software packages consisting of games, applications,
utilities, etc. Each had the original disks, manuals, and miscellaneous
inserts such as reply cards, warranty cards, etc. I would say this
software is worth more than all of the computers combined. However, this
is because I have all those machines in spades, but I am always in search
of original software packages that I don't have, and I'm sure there are
plenty out there that I don't. So any software I find is always a good
find.
> In my opinion, Thanks prices don't really add up. Kind of like coupon
> actual value prices. Its worth $1.00 during the transaction, but if you
> add the value up, you find it is worth half a cent. So 10 monitors _at_ $5
> each would not equal $50, but rather maybe $10 if you were feeling good.
Yes, again note the differential in my itemized pricing--$140--versus my
lot price--$100.
> Got about 3 moving boxes full of assorted software just a few months ago.
> All that was headed to the dumpster (I intercepted it on the way). About
> half Mac, half PC. I also got 2 paper case boxes of IIgs software not
> much before that, probably 20 or so titles, most in their boxes. All free.
Congratulations. That is quite a score. However, the original question
was "what is a fair value for this stuff?" It would not be reasonable to
say, "Oh, Chris just got three moving boxes worth of software for free, so
therefore I would value that portion of the lot at $0."
> I went under the assumption that it could refer to Mac monitors and hard
> drives since there are Macs included in the list. Actually, now that I
> think of it, if we are talking about Apple II hard drives (regardless of
> size), then those are worth something as they are much tougher to find.
The lot included a Mac Plus. Even if it did have an external hard drive,
it would likely be a 20 or 40 megger. I was also assuming that the hard
drive was for the Apple ][, but that much is not at all clear. Either
way, it evens out.
Yes, Apple ][ hard disk systems are not that easy to come by.
> >That's where you are completely wrong and why you don't understand my
> >pricing. The software, as long as most of it is in original boxes with
> >original disks, is the real prize. Your opinion may vary on this of
> >course, but the fact is that original software in the box is harder to
> >find than the machines themselves. And without the software and manuals,
> >the computer is just a pretty object.
>
> Yes, we differ here. You fit into the exclusion that I mentioned. That
> is, you care about having real copies of software. So to YOU the software
> might be worth something. There are lots of people like me that could
> care less about original copies, vs getting an "abondonware" copy off an
> FTP site or so. To people like me, software is of no real $$ value.
Ok, to each his own, but the point of collecting computers is to preserve
them and their history. Well, it turns out that much of that collective
"history" is represented by the manuals and software, especially the
originals, because the artwork on the box and the miscellaneous stuff that
comes inside are all telling of the culture of computing at the time the
software was published and also lend use to various avenues of research
that we may or may not realize right now. Future generations may glean
something useful out of the packaging that we don't today. Therefore, it
is important to save.
Also, if you saw my library of software (several walls by now), believe
me when I say you would be in awe. I doubt you would be willing to admit
that it had no value, either monetary, historical, or cultural.
> What's interesting here is I see your point with your pricing. You
> consider some items to be of value, that I don't. And vice versa (I find
> some value in a Woz IIgs). So it just goes to show, when pricing things,
> you can't rely on one source for info, and you should shop around to
> figure out the best place to market stuff. Maybe this is why eBay prices
> are always so high... with the wide audience, they increase the odds of
> hitting someone that lays value on the item.
Well, of course. My valuations are based on my experience, my knowledge,
and to an extent how important I perceive the object under scrutiny to
be. Each person's opinion of this will differ, but you also have to take
into account the credibility of the valuer as well as their motivations.
> And I'm still amazed that you would give a decent price. I had thought of
> you as a person that will always claim things are worth far less than
> they are just to keep prices down. I miss judged you... it must just
> really be a pure hatred of eBay instead. :-)
Well, I hate eBay for many reasons, mostly having to do with their
policies, but my main gripe is that yes, prices do tend to inflate rather
pompously there.
All in all, I'm a cheap bastard, and I have to be in order to be able to
collect what I do at the scale that I do, and then be able to manage that
collection. At the risk of sounding pretentious, I am not doing this just
for my own gratification. This is definitely a whole lot of fun and I
enjoy this hobby immensely, but this collection will live beyond me, and
in order for that to happen, I have to be conservative in various ways.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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Received on Wed Mar 05 2003 - 17:00:01 GMT